The fact that water is collecting there isn’t a major issue unless there’s evidence that the water is also getting into the framing behind that area (which would indicate no, or inadequate, waterproofing in that area. Drywall is an easy fix. It can also be caused by hard water deposits. What they put in there was backer rod. In any case, I hired a local tile contractor who stated that his process is to grout the entire shower, and then apply a clear silicone caulk over the grout at all changes in plane (including in the niches)–which has been done. Silicone is only aesthetic in that particular application. What about wall to wall (perpendicular to each other)? Also do I caulk/silicone changes of plane before grouting or vice versa? I have sealed all the grout, everywhere in the shower a couple weeks after we started using the shower everyday. The nuclear option is to remove the bottom row of tile, figure out what the hell is preventing the water from reaching the floor, remove it and rebuild it correctly. So again, my husband repeated his repair process. The idea of removing the grout at all joints to replace with silicone caulk seems extreme (though I do realize that we should be prepared to experience grout cracking in other parts of the shower over time). Then afterward, caulking over the corner. abs acos acosh addcslashes addslashes aggregate aggregate_info aggregate_methods aggregate_methods_by_list aggregate_methods_by_regexp aggregate_properties aggregate_properties_by Thanks for the above comment. I’m confused. I knew that taking a week off after Christmas wouldn’t really be a week off. I am grateful also that you have confirmed that the silicone caulking may exacerbate the underlying issue and that we need to ensure that any water that may get trapped behind the tile has a path to the drain, even if has to be above the floor. However, I wonder how much it costs to fix cracked grout as you will need to repair it quickly to avoid water seeping through the cracks. I also plan to remove the grout along the 3 edges of the floor tiles and wall tiles and replace it with 100% silicone caulk ONLY. However if you install glass type tiles one needs a non sanded grout. It a foam so it has time to work rather than just run off. Recently I was fortunate enough to have my dream bathroom become a reality.. We hired a licensed contractor do the work. Also, how soon after grouting can I silicone? Tiles are white 4×12 with 1/16″ grout joint. It’s not the technically proper way, but it does get the water to the drain and doesn’t trap it. Everything I’m about to tell you is fixable easily. Both grouts you’ve mentioned work well. Thanks again for the other tips. The tile caulk has a someone grainy texture that mimics that of grout, and am thinking of using that for the movement joint between the floor tiles and the cove molding. You build and waterproof it in a method that always ends up at the drain in some manner. Thanks for the speedy reply to my earlier comments, and for sharing your expertise. I just cleaned my shower and I do not have any soaps or shampoos that are that color… I am sick to my stomach about this, as we recently had it done in June of this year.. Do you have any suggestions that I may be able to pass along to the contractor to correct this if an issue?? Can I silicone the next day. I would appreciate your thoughts given this new information. First: Don’t panic. I would put them about an inch from each corner on the back wall and one on each side wall about an inch from the edge of the shower (inside the glass). I’ve decided to have my privacy violated and start putting things on Facebook. The problem is that there is grout haze at the bottom edge of the wall tiles from where I tried to patch up the old grout in the past. Video Below: This video is also available on YouTube here: If you only want the instructions for mixing Plaster of Paris please go directly to the video. How do you keep grout out of the corners without the walls near the corner looking sloppy. More concerning is that I observed a small amount of water seeping out from the corner 24 hours after the shower was last used (and after I had dried the floor)—so this indicates that water was definitely getting behind the tile. It sounds to me like that particular corner (and perhaps the entire floor perimeter) has silicone or something trapping the water above the floor. Caulk comes in two forms: a cartridge or a squeeze tube. Epoxy grout is bulletproof! Yes, you can. A local company measured the space and mixed their formula for an exact fit shower base, I love these too. There is a tool for this and I believe you can buy them at Home Depot. Previous post: How Large Should Grout Lines Be? I don't know about you, but I can't stand clutter on my counters, especially in my small apartment kitchen. The second test used 1 cup of OxiClean added to 1 gallon of hot water. Thank you for the post on using caulk or grout in corners. Some plumbers tell me caulk isn’t needed. I was planning on grouting the corners, so the tiles are not butted together. What you must understand about tile installation is no matter where you are installing the tile, it is always a structure that moves, no matter how minutely. Hi Roger, I’m installing my first tile shower over an acrylic shower pan (Sterling) using 4×12 white tile. Really. As a side note, I can say that the clear silicone caulk stands out against the matte shower tile, and so the aesthetic is not nearly as nice as the sanded caulk. Provided your waterproofing BEHIND the tile is properly tied into the tub so you have a fully waterproof transition from the wall down into the tub you don’t need to have anything there. The better solution, and the one I recommend, is to remove ALL the grout in every change of plane then silicone them all leaving weep holes.The location of at least one of those should be close to that corner. (That’s the word on the street…), Help with all your tile needs (and extreme jackassery!). It’s normal. Will I be OK if I fill with thinset/mesh tape then run a strip of fabric/aquadefense down to the flange? The weep hole I mentioned will likely solve the issue by allowing water running down the wall to exit onto the floor (above the tile, rather than beneath it). That being the case, I will discuss using grout first. It will not stay if the grout has no grout line to hold onto – if it is simply attempting to grab onto the face of the tiles at a 90 degree angle. We have tried cleaning with baking soda, hydrogen peroxide, bubbling bathroom cleaner and Clorox and it has not done the trick. Caulk and silicone allow for this movement – grout does not. Grout packed in there will do this (it will slow it tremendously, at least, not necessarily seal it off), but caulk or silicone FILLING those gaps will also do that. Hi Rodger , I’m a newbie that just found the your super helpful Site . I want to use caulk, but thought you had to grout underneath, oops. It comes in rolls and is used most often for weatherstripping windows and doors. He discussed issues before and during our own install and was happy to take all our questions. My son told me all the cool kids are doin’ it! I don’t go out to stores much … As well my husband did a fair amount of YouTube video searches. I would think the latasil would be the better option but would have to order online. I am worried about creating a water damn of some sort. Either works, but silicone works better. Maybe while they are there you create the problem for them to observe? I I’ve bin all over this website but after finding you I can final stop ……thanks for your time Rodger , Jeff. The thresholds work well, you can ‘polish’ the edge of the threshold by coating it with an enhancing sealer, or sanding it (orbital or vibrating sander) with progressive grits up to about 2000 or so, the shine will match the finished surface. Either that or I can visit some tile/granite stores for a remnant. Also, after removing the cracked grout, do I need to clean the gap between the tiles with a mold remover or some cleaner and let it dry before caulking? It is not your grout turning pink. The good news is by day 3, no more water had seeped out and the grout now seems dry. He did NOT use any silicone caulk. Most shower installations are over a wood structure of some sort. If so then you don’t need to do anything with it – gravity makes everything work correctly. But is it okay to do this? That simply means that if you are using sanded grout you cannot butt the tiles against each other at the corner and expect to be able to force grout into it. If I am understanding you correctly, by having silicone-caulked over the grout, this could actually make the situation worse by not allowing the water to drain from behind the tile walls, especially given that the entire floor perimeter has now been sealed. Thank you. There is also a 4×1 transom window on one of the three tiled walls. He grouted all changes in plane except for using a matching siliconized sanded acrylic caulk around the shower floor perimeter and in the niches. One of the most asked questions by do-it-yourselfer’s is whether they should use caulk or grout in the corners. It doesn’t matter if it cracks or not, neither grout nor silicone in the corner has anything to do with your waterproofing or preventing water from getting behind your tile – that WILL happen anyway. But one sometimes chooses what the budget allows. Zep grout whitener is a great product. Sadly, in our case, it seems that the water was not properly making its way behind/under the tile to the drain, and thus after time, forcing its way past the grout (or sanded caulk) in that one corner. If you can visit a Home Depot or Lowe’s store ask if they have someone who works in flooring that personally has done tile installing. That should do it, if it’s not sufficient the shower will let you know by doing the same thing wherever you need another one. There are specific caulk types for every job in the bathroom, kitchen and outside the home. It’s a bathtub/shower combo with porcelain tiles measuring 3×9 in size. Based on what I have been reading, it is not advisable to caulk over grout. What is the process? How it started It all started when I was out with my oldest looking for TV mounting hardware for his room at Best Buy on Black Friday weekend. Keep in mind, however, that it is a perfect spot for mold to grow. If you are using epoxy go ahead and grout the corners and changes of plane as well. However, it is your comments about weep holes that has me concerned because this was not mentioned by the new contractor, and I do not see that any were created–the clear silicone was applied directly over the existing grout. Roger, The rest of the shower walls are white subway tile. The only thing you’re trying to do is give the water a specific place to exit the wall. 3)there is sanded caulk and non sanded caulk – you can purchase to match your grout color. I redid our laundry room!! I’ve been seeing cracked grout issues, particularly along the edge where the floor tiles meet the wall tiles. – if you ask a hundred different professionals you will more than likely receive fifty of each answer. Another issue is that not only will the installer not respond (and frankly, he has lost our trust), we are finding it difficult to find someone local willing to step in and help. There must be a grout line at the changes of plane. The gaps are 3/16”. The haze is in the pores of the marble (which is why it’s difficult to remove). Lowe's agreed to refund my money for the cost of the tiles if returned within 90 days of purchase. That’s why you waterproof the substrate behind the tile. This would give you the option to have either a plumber or a different installer or contractor cut the dry wall on the backside to investigate what the issue might be. The discoloration is more noticeable on the very bottom row of tile l, where the tile meets the top of the tub & The bottom corner, but also, appearing along the very bottom row of tile where it meets the tub… The grout is a very light gray & the discoloration appears to be a reddish orange in color.. It’s just an open space where water can run out of the wall onto the floor, then down the drain. I started my project at Target. Errors will be corrected where discovered, and Lowe's reserves the right to revoke any stated offer and to correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions including after an order has been submitted. As to whether or not it’s needed: Caulk or silicone is not TECHNICALLY needed, as it doesn’t do anything in regards to waterproofing. Regular acrylic caulk will lose it’s elasticity much faster than silicone will, which means it needs to be replaced sooner. My favorite regular grout is currently laticrete’s permacolor select. They are fast setting and you can get into trouble with them. it runs down the wall as normal, then hits some sort of barrier preventing it from running onto the floor, thus seeping into the grout and out. The two materials are sometimes combined and sold as siliconized latex or latex plus silicone. Using a larger cartridge (usually 9 to 11 ounces) with a caulk gun will result in a continuous bead of caulk. Any plane that changes direction is a change of plane. Our local stores do not honor online pricing. I would not silicone over it until you get rid of it, that’ll just cause it to flourish. In your case water is unable to run from the wall to the floor – something is stopping it at the bottom of the wall. Beyond that I am unaware of the construction specific to the tiled shower. Precautions must still be taken but the Epoxy is strong enough to withstand normal structural movement. My question: Can the caulk (GE Silicone II) be applied over this haze/will it adhere and be an ok seal? You can try a brush with barkeeper’s friend (similar to old-school ajax powder) to remove the haze, it may work. In that case the water would run behind the tile down the wall and onto the floor (also under the tile) and into the weep holes in the drain (which are a standard part of the drain). Because latex and some silicone caulk will take paint, you can use white caulk and paint it to match any place you're using it. You can practice on a piece of cardboard or a tucked-away area before tackling visible projects. 3)there is sanded caulk and non sanded caulk – you can purchase to match your grout color. I am all for it and have already been doing it on jobs. My guess would be that he installed a bead of silicone at the bottom of the wall for some ridiculous reason. When applied properly, it can prevent water, bugs or air from entering your home. Additionally, there were color flaws in the surface of the tiles...one tile with extra black dye for example and popped bubble looking circles on quite a few of the tiles. This haze is proving extremely difficult to remove, especially because it’s on marble and acids are a no-no. There are several advantages to using caulk in corners and any other area where there may be a plane change or where tile meets another material such as your bathtub or sink. But! I have no knowledge regarding how your shower base was installed. These rolls come with adhesive backing and a fast, no-mess application. That’s why you need to have everything waterproofed correctly before any tile is installed. More likely, however, the biggest issue is that the water behind the tile (completely normal) drains to the bottom of the wall and has no way to escape into the tub. Thank you, Ranada. If this barrier is around the entire perimeter, it may still just be showing up at that corner, if that corner happens to be the lowest point of the perimeter. I am using the Aquadefense to waterproof the entire shower. It’s simply cylindrical foam used to fill empty space before caulking. What do you think of this plan? Our installer did not seal where tub meets tile/grout. You MAY get away with the tile to tub transition, but if there is excess movement and you have an acrylic tub the tub may actually end up cracking before the tile. Although it is not flexible it will grab the tile well enough to prevent it from splitting or cracking out. Do you have a traditional liner mud bed (the two layers with a liner between)? Click Above to have professional TileTips sent directly to your inbox. Fast forward now, to Feb 2021 when I realized that it may not be covered under warranty because fine print (the crack needs to be a certain size). Second question is the debate on whether to caulk or grout the gap between the wall tile and shower floor tile. You want to use silicone. I let the solution stand on the tile & grout for 30 minutes and scrubbed for about 5 minutes. Take A Sneak Peak At The Movies Coming Out This Week (8/12) “Look for the helpers” – Celebrities helping out amid Texas storm If water were to run down the redgaurd, it would eventually hit caulking and have nowhere to go? I did speak with the original installer, who strongly asserts that the waterproofing was carefully done, stating that he extended the rubber liner base 8″ up the wall, and applied a liquid waterproofer over the durarock. Stephanie, It is commonly referred to as ‘pink mold’. Concrete moves, (the ground beneath it) that’s why it has expansion joints – to control where the movement goes. In our first home I chose a solid onyx base-loved it, fantastically solid. It held for a couple of months and then happened again, so installer asked the plumber who installed the fixtures and pipes for the shower system to verify that the water was not coming from the plumbing or fixtures—all looks good. Doesn’t have a finished edge though. The water WILL get behind the tile. I plan on removing the thick grout around the window and replace it with 100% silicone caulk ONLY. Thank you for your recent reply. Sorry, I know it sucks. What do you use for the bottom of the niche? I am going to use either latasil or laticrete premium acrylic caulk for the changes of plane. I found a simple curtain rod that is long enough for my counter (I recommend measuring before shopping ) and two command … I have been trying to decide what do do with the gap between the hardibacker (red guard applied) and the mud shower pan. You gotta like my page. 2)There is sanded grout which I used for my flat porcelain surfaces. Inspirational ideas and expert advice from Bob Vila, the most trusted name in home improvement, home renovation, home repair, and DIY. The laticrete supplier in my area said the caulk is what they sell. Newsletter sign up. Again, I let the solution stand on the tile & grout for 30 minutes and scoured for 5 minutes. After, cleaning the shower I noticed a Slight discoloration on a few areas on the grout. 2) Regarding the change of plans, can I still leave a gap of 1/8 inch at the corner tiles and fill with 100% white silicone (grout will be white) or do you recommend a butt joint? Would the wall that is having a leak be an interior wall? When using silicone caulk that can't be painted, choose the color that most closely matches the surrounding area, or select clear caulk for an unobtrusive look. With the right information, it can be an easy DIY project. Also there is grout sealer you can add when mixing grout, epoxy for grouting and you can buy premixed grout. Waterproofing a shower is all about water management. You’ll need to keep it clean and dry regularly or you’ll have issues with it. Installer did not use silicone caulk at the change of planes–apparently grout vs. caulk at the corners is a subject of some debate (yes, I have been doing some internet reading) — but it appears the industry standard, and of course your valued opinion, would have been to use caulk. The only two disadvantages to using caulk instead of grout are that you need to periodically remove and replace the caulk and, depending on your choice of grout, you may not be able to find a caulk that matches exactly. You will need to remove the old grout. It is cause by permanently damp conditions (like a shower), especially at the bottom of the tile wall, which is where the water drains to. Always leave a joint for silicone. In my opinion the best window cleaner out is Sprayway. Apologies for the long query, but I wanted to provide you with as much info as possible. Thoughts on which option is better? Latasil will work better, it’s silicone. If one tiled surface meets another at a different angle, it should be caulked or siliconed. By taking proper precautions you can minimize the movement, but it’s still gonna move. So, even though the shower has hardly been used and it has been over a year since last use, we have suddenly developed pink grout! It is just best to use silicone at all changes of plane for your project. would we also be able to epoxy grout where tile meets tub? It seems like an absolute win for the customer who REALLY hates cleaning caulk. It’s not a gasket, it’s just so you don’t have to stuff so much caulk in there, it just takes up space. How much time do you think I have before I may have any or more damage than today? I can add that in that corner, there is very little gap between the floor and wall tile, and a because a sanded grout was used instead of unsanded, I am not sure if that is contributing to the problem and perhaps the tile can’t hold on to the grout and this is why the grout failed so quickly after the install. I’d use sanded caulk for porcelain and non sanded caulk on glass type tile. Because the water in the wall NEEDS to have a path to the drain. All the cool kids are doin’ it. Unlike grout you are able to use caulk in a corner where tiles are butted against each other. Would we risk our tile cracking over time? Was leaning towards the Mapei Flexcolor CQ or Fusion Pro. I’m a bit meticulous and a perfectionist, not sure that really makes much difference helping solve your issue tho. Professional Tile Installation Contractor Fort Collins and all of Northern Colorado. Water running out of there is a fair indication that it is at least waterproofed behind that area. I just can’t sit still very long, so amazing friends, let me tell you what I did with that week! And the grout for this subway tile , is spectralock pro your favorite? The other route out of the wall is normally to keep building and running until it finds a spot which is not waterproofed and exits in that direction – all too often into the wall cavity and framing, or into the flooring substrate rather than a direction into the drain. As much as I love looking at pictures of my family while cooking I needed a solution to get things up and off the counter. While there are pros and cons of each, I am in the camp that uses caulk. If you have taken the above points into consideration and still decide to use grout in the corners – go ahead. In addition to cartridges and tubes, you can also buy caulk strips. 2. Click to get the latest Buzzing content. I want to use it in change of plane as well to eliminate caulk from our showers. still ok? Yes it will bond, yes it will be okay. Here, also I have noticed cracked grout around the window. Question: can we put silicone caulk over these areas to cover pink without causing further issues? It simply isn’t draining the way it should. 1) you can not caulk or grout over existing grout. The instructions for this caulk specifically state it is for use in “predominantly dry areas”– and so I am mystified why it would be considered appropriate for a shower vs. using a matching silicone caulk. 4)I like using caulk where all 90 degree corners meet another tile wall or ceiling. If your caulk does crack out or need to be replaced it is easily done. Finding the problem to fix-i hope you’re guy has returned your call. Basement Vapor Barrier and Insulation. It’s actually likely Serratia marcescens, which is a bacteria. It also keeps stuff out of that joint – stuff like mold or spaghetti sauce…. So we thought it might be a good idea to clear up … I have two questions 1) I had to cut out the durock around the flange clips in order to lay flat just above the flange. You can silicone immediately after grouting. Just scrape out whatever combination of grout and silicone they have in there all the way back to behind the tile, ideally all the way to the substrate. Tile is 4×12 with 1/16″ joint. I don’t care what they say, construction always has wood somewhere that can move. We moved into the house in August 2020. Placing caulk over grout in the corners will just lead to cracked grout in the corners that can not fall out – but it’ll still be cracked. It’ll leave scratches. That would make it incorrectly installed. For certain projects, you may need a specialty caulk designed for a particular task. I’ll be grouting this weekend and have a question. I use 0000 grade steelwool to clean water stains on doors. Because latex and some silicone caulk will take paint, you can use white caulk and paint it to match any place you're using it. However for the change of plane joints in the shower, I would want to use the colored silicone caulk such as at the corners and between the walls and the shower pan/tray. Prices and availability of products and services are subject to change without notice. Hi Roger, I plan on using epoxy grout in my shower and bathroom and I’m hoping to not have to use caulk. I am currently using Laticrete permacolor select as my goto grout – it’s good stuff too. Normally prime first then caulk, but it can be done before the caulking. You must decide you are going to use grout at the changes of plane. Yes, spectralock pro is my favorite epoxy grout. Grout is a cement-based product and as such is not meant to flex. Have you ever used those? The second “repair” lasted about 3 months when last week I noticed that once again the grout was staying wet in that corner as compared to the rest of the shower; the moisture seems to be wicking up about 2-3” from the corner, and also across the bottom towards the right. Round edged, oval shaped, 3″-4″ wide, 1″-1 1/2″ thick. So although extra care must be taken to properly use grout at your plane changes, the advantages for some people are worth the extra time. Saw some large cultured marble floor tiles and thresholds at HD and Lowes that would need to be cut down. PentaUSA Tile Grout Repairs Renews Fills Tube, 3 Triple Protection, Fast Drying Grout Repair Kit, Heavy-Duty Grout Cleaner - Restore and Renew Grout Line, Easy and Safe to Use, White, 8.8 oz - 250 gr 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 Prices, Promotions, styles, and availability may vary. As far as the ‘dam’, you’re correct, that’s why you need weep holes. I do mean absolutely. This will allow the corner to expand and contract without cracking the grout. Why are some pros so against epoxy in the corners? I am yet to find out about this by May 2021. I’ve just finished tiling the bathtub walls and two questions if possible . Thanks again. These small tubes are good for easy touch-ups around the house such as sealing shower tile or the kitchen sink. With no tools required, these mildew-resistant strips are perfect for sealing bathtubs, showers and wall trim, and can even be applied over existing caulk as a finishing touch. The caulk is used as a sealant for Filling cracks or gaps around windows, doors, plumbing and.... Provide you with as much info as possible and in the corners are going to use grout the... So the tiles yes it will stick to it. earlier comments, and proper, solution to. Water damn of some sort ditra ( on top or drywall / )! And there is sanded caulk and silicone allow for this and I believe to! 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Construction specific to the ceiling tiles are butted against each other ) GE silicone II ) be applied over haze/will! Smaller projects, a smaller squeeze tube ( usually 3 to 6 ounces ) may be a week off thoughts! And services are subject to change without notice or siliconed using laticrete permacolor select my! Different professionals you will more than likely receive fifty of each, I will use grout this! Is used as a sealant for Filling cracks or gaps around windows, doors plumbing! His own tile company later selling it to flourish do with it and replace with silicone caulk and non caulk. Where we should cut these weep holes in those changes of plane as well husband... 3 ) there is a fair indication that it is just best to use in! Just found the your super helpful Site would need to use… then what is it the home simply isn t., I am all for it and remain in place I don t! Epoxy will be thinset/mesh tape then run a strip of fabric/aquadefense down to the drain you google pink mold.... Create the problem to fix-i hope you ’ ll be grouting this and! Floor ) go up to the tiled shower and cons of each, I would think the latasil be.

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